Olin Moyles Ghost

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Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

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  11

  Was Michael Jackson reproved in 1983 and DF/DA in 1989?

  by Olin Moyles Ghost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be quite a bit of conflicting information about michael jackson's jw status as a young man.

  it's clear that he was raised a witness and that he was a practicing witness (a publisher) in the 1970s and early 1980s.

  but there's some uncertainty about (1) whether he was baptized, and (2) whether and when he was df/da.. i was looking around on yahoo answers and found the following question: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=aqerwd.lhqkco.59fnqahbrty6ix;_ylv=3?qid=20090628174024aafwsky&show=7.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  There seems to be quite a bit of conflicting information about Michael Jackson's JW status as a young man. It's clear that he was raised a Witness and that he was a practicing Witness (a publisher) in the 1970s and early 1980s. But there's some uncertainty about (1) whether he was baptized, and (2) whether and when he was DF/DA.

  I was looking around on Yahoo Answers and found the following question: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqERWd.LHQkcO.59FNQaHBrty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20090628174024AAFwsKY&show=7. The user "mojo_celtica" claims to know Jackson and gives a detailed answer with names and dates. Of course, I have no way to verify whether it's true, but it sounds believable. Do any of you have the inside scoop? Yahoo Answers has been up and down today, so for your convenience her answer is reproduced below:

  --------------------------------------------------

  Michael's problems with the Witnesses began with Thriller in 1983. Michael asked the Elders for permission before filming Thriller and permission was granted. Afterward, an Elder named Dick Lucas, who apparently wasn't one of the group of Elders who granted Michael permission to film, began persecuting him.
  
  The part of Thriller that got Michael in trouble was the metamorphosis from man to cat person. Long story short, he was officially reproved, publicly, before the entire congregation. He attended the meeting that night but, when it came time for him to be reproved, he got up and left, horribly embarassed.
  
  After that, Brother Lucas made it his personal mission in life to criticize everything little thing Michael did. He was impossible to please and was relentless. When Thriller went worldwide along with Michael's fame, Bro. Lucas lost his mind. He thought people's adoration of Michael was akin to idolatry and pressured Michael to give up being an entertainer.
  
  Michael did everything that was required of him by the Witnesses. He went out in the service, he attended all the meetings and book studies, he gave talks... he would even fly back to LA from wherever he was to fulfill his obligations.
  
  Ultimately, in... I think it was May of 1989, Michael left the congregation. Michael being forced from the church by Bro. Lucas began the downhill slide in his life. Michael lost his anchor.
  
  As far as I know, Michael never converted to Islam (Jermaine did) and he was a Christian at the time of his death.

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  48

  "Apostates can only criticize , tear down and destroy "

  by BluesBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "apostates can only criticize , tear down and destroy " say the active dubs, "where is their hope of something better?

  what is their message to mankind ?

  if they have nothing better to offer, how can they attack our faith, which at least offers a hope of a better world?".

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  That statement "apostates can only criticize, tear down, and destroy" is the last refuge of someone who cannot compete in the marketplace of ideas. When a Witness makes such a statement, he has conceded the argument.

  Fact of the matter is that if you really want to believe something, you're going to find a reason to believe it even if all the available facts point in the other direction. Nowhere is this more evident in the area of religion.

  People are scared of the dark and don't want to die. The Witnesses (and other end-times hucksters) tickle their ears by offering "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" in a nice little package. Some people are gullible enough to buy into it. These people are not going to be dissuaded by facts.

  Some of us prefer the real world. With all its flaws, at least it's real.
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  9

  You have to ask Yourself

  by The-Borg in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what sort of entity requires the blood sacfrice of millions of animals and his own son to satiate his sense of justice.. .

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  And don't forget the foreskins! Can't be having any intact genitalia...that would never do.
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  231

  Name Things JWs Believe That Are Not Actually Biblically Provable

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here's one example: being a congregation publisher.

  nowhere in the bible does it say you should be a "publisher" and turn in your time if you preach.

  they try to twist the scriptures by saying that numbers are constantly being recorded in the bible so then conforming to the rules of being a publisher is from the scriptures.. yeah, right..

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  There are lots of these. Here are a few:

  (1) that God does not grant forgiveness of certain sins unless the sinner confesses to elder(s)

  (2) that Jesus is not the mediator for all Christians (Witnesses teach he's mediator only for 144,000 in spite of 1 Tim. 2:5)

  (3) that women are allowed to give parts on meetings (in spite of Paul's clear command at 1 Cor. 14:34-35)

  (4) Everything related to dates and numbers (1914, 1919, 1260 days, 1290 days, 7 trumpet blasts, etc.) is completely made-up and unverifiable.
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  10

  would you want to be part of any religion that changes the bible on purpose?...

  by oompa in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ...and makes it say what they want it to in order to fit their doctrines???

  nearly every jw and non would answer no!

  i wish i had started off my last elder visit with that question.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Well I wouldn't want to be part of any religion that changes the Bible by accident! (sorry Oompa, couldn't help myself)

  But seriously, I see the NWT issue as being a good example of how the Witnesses are just like every other (false) religion in this respect. The Catholic and Protestant translators in the Middle Ages changed the Bible to fit their doctrines (see 1 John 5:7 in the KJV as a particularly bad example).

  When Fred Franz and the NWT "translators" took it upon themselves to add the Name to the New Testament without a single shred of textual support, they put themselves in the same category as the KJV translators who added "and these three are one" to 1 John 5:7.
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  31

  Apostate question

  by minu in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been df'd now for almost 4 years.

  of his congregation (or whatever it is that they are called now).

  today at work, he surprised me with is presence and asked if i have been going to any church services or attending a church regularly because if i had then i would be considered apostate.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  There's nothing earth-shattering in the Patterson school for Presiding Overseers (now called "Coordinators of the Body of Elders"). If there was, we would have heard about it on this board. There are too many active elders and others with solid JW contacts to keep it a secret from this board.

  I'm inclined to agree with lots of the posters on this board that it's more of the same ol' "The End is Near" clap-trap. I find it amusing that adults actually take this stuff seriously...but they do.
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  26

  Be realistic in 2009! Why Politics will NEVER turn on Religion in our society!

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  communism is dead and the usa is a strongly christian, tolarant, democratic nation, it just won't happen here.

  muslim nations are fanatical about their dedication....no chance.

  it's silly to think of religions as a whole being banned....this is just a witness bad dream, never happen in a million years..

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Agreed. Politics and religion are partners. I find it amusing that in the USA in the 21st century, you cannot get elected to state or national office unless you profess some sort of religious belief.

  The fact that I don't believe in talking snakes, talking donkeys, and a guy living in a whale for 3 days disqualifies me from holding public office in this country.
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  3

  reply from friend on 607...1914..etc

  by isaacaustin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have had an ongoing discussion with a friend on the validity of 1914, as well as the chronology leading to it...i roundly refuted the wt drivel quoted and got this response....notice the changing of topics...as well as admission he can not refute.... .

  i am so sorry that i have used the wrong term when talking about the scriptures in num.

  and eze.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  The JW response is not surprising. There are so many holes in the JW "Gentile Times" theology, that it's hard to pick one to start with.

  To me, the issue of 607 vs. 587 is of secondary importance. Even if 607 was correct (which it isn't), why does there need to be a second fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy? If there's a second fulfillment, why can't there be a third, fourth, etc.? It makes no sense. Rather, it shows a sort of generational narcissism--that everything in the Bible has to be about ME or MY generation.

  And the discussion of the image in Neb's dream also exposes weaknesses in JW theology. For example, the Witnesses teach that the legs of iron represent Rome and that the feet represent the "Anglo-American" world power. So the Witnesses would have us believe that the Roman world power was still in place during the middle ages? What about Genghis Khan? His empire was larger than any of these other world powers. And later, what about the Ottoman empire?

  Honestly, that idea of 7 world powers is a total sham...the JWs remind me of Nostradomas followers who try desperately to shoehorn historical events into his prophecies. It's pathetic.
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  28

  *Updated* Governing Body Member Points at IC

  by nbernat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  *sorry for the near triple post.

  i figured i'm going to have to break it down so everyone can see.*.

  point #1. we are like children playing outside innocently whose mother freaks out once she sees that the ignorant child finds a snake and starts playing with it.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  **
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  16

  Governing Body Talks @ Convention

  by nbernat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well the convention was extremely long and boring but i decided to take specific notes on brother morris's talks for discussion here on jwd (and i was also able to get a few extra copies of the creation dvd so if anyone wants one, pm me).. overall, the brother is not a great orator and sometimes awkwardly raises his voice.

  i am aware that some of the friends were a little disappointed to say the least that we did not get a more "famous" gb brother at the first international convention, but he speaks for the gb, so same difference.. it felt like most of his talks were around a.

  ) countering criticism about jws and b.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Thanks for the recap...sorry you had to sit through that nonsense.